Subject: Re: GEOPHONES From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 11:31:17 -0700 Geospace has changed their legal name and some idiot changed the web site to http://www.geospacelp.com/ The proper approach would have been to maintain the old site with a referral to the new address for perhaps a year or at least until the search engines picked up the new URL. Doug ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > > Hi there, > > My site reference for Geospace Geophones > http://www.geospacecorp.com/ > does not seem to work any longer. Can anyone give me a reference for > these > geophones please? > > Chris Chapman -- Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com 19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Testing geophones From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:30:53 EDT I came across the following reference to testing the damping of geophones etc. and wondered if anyone had tried it? http://www.ednmag.com/reg/1996/030196/05di2.htm I also wondered if this couldn't be adapted to testing the damping of seismometers? Could you set up the damping with a relatively short period and only then lengthen the period? There are references to 4 Geophone Mfgrs at http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml and a range of other info. Regards, Chris Chapman      I came across the following reference to testing the damping of
geophones etc. and wondered if anyone had tried it?
      http://www.ednmag.com/reg/1996/030196/05di2.htm
      I also wondered if this couldn't be adapted to testing the damping of
seismometers? Could you set up the damping with a relatively short period and
only then lengthen the period?

      There are references to 4 Geophone Mfgrs at
http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml
and a range of other info.

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: WinQuake 2.7b5, PSN meeting From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:01:16 -0700 Hi Larry -- I think I might have come across a problem with the new Winquake. In the replay window (clicking "replay" from the "open file" window), if I change the "length" field, sometimes the program seems to ignore my input. For instance, I started Winquake and did a replay of an event and left the default of 7 minutes of "length" and got the replay just fine. Then I wanted to look at a tele event and changed the "length" to 90 minutes and got the replay ok again. So far so good. Then I requested another replay, changing the "length" back to 7 minutes. When I get the replay, it was 90 minutes. At this point I'm stuck. It will only give me a 90-minute replay no matter what I enter in the "length" field. Later on, Winquake completely ignored what I entered in the "length" field. It would always use the default value (7 minutes in my case). Even if I changed the default, it would ignore that and get the old default value. BUT, next time I start Winquake, it uses the newer default value. Wierd! I'm not entirely sure if I'll be able to make the PSN meeting. I would really like to but I'm low on vacation time at work I need to take that Friday off. Karl __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: WinQuake 2.7b5, PSN meeting From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 02:38:51 -0700 Hi Karl, Attached is a new winqk32.exe that should fix the replay bug. I discovered it myself a few days ago. -Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Cunningham" To: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:01 PM Subject: WinQuake 2.7b5, PSN meeting > Hi Larry -- > > I think I might have come across a problem with the new Winquake. In the > replay window (clicking "replay" from the "open file" window), if I change > the "length" field, sometimes the program seems to ignore my input. > > For instance, I started Winquake and did a replay of an event and left the > default of 7 minutes of "length" and got the replay just fine. Then I > wanted to look at a tele event and changed the "length" to 90 minutes and > got the replay ok again. So far so good. Then I requested another replay, > changing the "length" back to 7 minutes. When I get the replay, it was 90 > minutes. At this point I'm stuck. It will only give me a 90-minute replay > no matter what I enter in the "length" field. > > Later on, Winquake completely ignored what I entered in the "length" > field. It would always use the default value (7 minutes in my case). Even > if I changed the default, it would ignore that and get the old default > value. BUT, next time I start Winquake, it uses the newer default > value. Wierd! > > > I'm not entirely sure if I'll be able to make the PSN meeting. I would > really like to but I'm low on vacation time at work I need to take that > Friday off. > > Karl > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Acouple linear diamagnetic designs for potential tiltmeter/seismometer From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 15:49:01 -0800 Hi all, Now have another web page on diamagnetic levitation for those interested in the tiltmeter/seismometer aspect of using such. The page only shows the basic rod levitation and there is only one picture related to eddy current damping. Its anticipated that with the addition of a aluminum foil "flag" atop the rod and in the middle, that combined with a source of light, the motion can be sensed and recorded. Here the graphite is "common" high grade 1/8" diameter spectrographic rods that are diamagnetic and utilized with various magnets. For prior web site readers, the Martin Simon levitation stand graphite is not used. http://diamagnetics.users2.50megs.com/page017.html Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Acouple more geomagnetic solar flare graphs From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 17:08:04 -0800 Hi all, Also put up additions to the prior March 31st solar flare and/or interplanetary shock wave as it hit earth and affected my diamagnetic instrument. I show April 4th and April 7th additions on the same web page. Neither of these are as dramatic as the March 31st result. See: http://diamagnetics.users2.50megs.com/page061.html Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Changes to the PSN-L list From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:02:21 -0700 Hi all, Last night I accidentally sent out an attachment to the list. Sorry if you received it. After I discovered what I done I removed the file so most of you didn't get it. Today I make some changes to the list server to prevent this from happening again. First I make a changed that will reject any messages, with or without an attachment, that is larger then 50,000 bytes. Next I wrote a program that tests message sent to this list for any attachments. If there is one, the message is rejected. If your message is rejected you should get an error message back. Please let me know if this filtering causes any problems. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: GEOPHONES/BURROWING ANIMALS From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 14:19:55 EDT From: "Clive A Marks" > I'm a wildlife biologist in Victoria (Australia) interested in the > behaviour of large burrowing mammals. Is it worth investigating the > ability of geophones to detect burrowing sounds and animal movement > within burrows if they are placed in close proximity? Any advice would > be appreciated! Dear Clive Marks, Can you outline just what sort of measurements, activities, animal species, size, distance, etc. you want to record / use? Your EMail was really too vague to give definitive answers. Most small animals tend to move rather quietly unless they are actually running. Piezo disks are good at picking up ground vibrations up to several hundred Hz, which might be made by actual burrowing. They are both cheap and very sensitive. I have used a stereo pair for locating water leaks. Commercial water leak detectors and geophones tend to be expensive. Second-hand geophones may be quite reasonably priced - see www.ebay.com. The ~10 Hz ones should be OK for your task. There is an amplifier circuit on the PSN site. Geospace geophone characteristics are now at http://www.geospacelp.com/ There is an article on geophones at http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml and on Walts geophone site at http://www.pacificnet.net/~dfheli/geophon.html Other sensors that you might wish to consider are Infra Red emitter / detectors, which could be either placed across a hole / track, or retro reflective types to sense close approach. Quite high sensitivities can be archived using pulse signals and coherent detection. Commercial IR intruder beam sensors are available. Ultrasonic detectors working in the 40 KHz range will also detect animals and can be used to measure velocity. Small animals, some birds, bats and insects may be able to sense these signals. Electrostatic detectors can be of the type which react to static charges or to RF capacity changes. 10 GHz Radio Intruder Detectors modules are available, as are pyroelectric heat detector modules. Radio signals may penetrate sandy soil quite well. None of these techniques need be very expensive, but it is a great help if you have the services of someone really competent in electronics. You can also use the small surveillance CCD cameras with Infra Red illumination to monitor animal movements. The modules are fairly reasonably priced. If you are using a CRT monitor to observe movements, you can use a lens and a CdS photocell + amplifier to give an alarm or to switch on a video recorder. Pyroelectric detector modules are also successful for this. I have used them to detect animals at close range, from field mice upwards in size. You need to consider how you are going to separate the signals you want from noise (wind, rain, vehicles, ground movement) or interfering signals (other animals) as well as how seriously your equipment will encroach on the environment or alter the behaviour of the animals that you wish to observe. I hope that these suggestions may be of some help. I would appreciate a brief EMail in reply, please. Regards, Chris Chapman From: "Clive A Marks"
> I'm a wildlife biologist in Victoria (Australia) interested in the
> behaviour of large burrowing mammals.  Is it worth investigating the
> ability of geophones to detect burrowing sounds and animal movement
> within burrows if they are placed in close proximity?  Any advice would
> be appreciated!

Dear Clive Marks,

     Can you outline just what sort of measurements, activities, animal
species, size, distance, etc. you want to record / use? Your EMail was really
too vague to give definitive answers. Most small animals tend to move rather
quietly unless they are actually running. Piezo disks are good at picking up
ground vibrations up to several hundred Hz, which might be made by actual
burrowing. They are both cheap and very sensitive. I have used a stereo pair
for locating water leaks. Commercial water leak detectors and geophones tend
to be expensive. Second-hand geophones may be quite reasonably priced - see
www.ebay.com. The ~10 Hz ones should be OK for your task. There is an
amplifier circuit on the PSN site. Geospace geophone characteristics are now
at  http://www.geospacelp.com/ There is an article on geophones at
http://www.tenrats.org/geo.shtml and on Walts geophone site at
http://www.pacificnet.net/~dfheli/geophon.html

      Other sensors that you might wish to consider are Infra Red emitter /
detectors, which could be either placed across a hole / track, or retro
reflective types to sense close approach. Quite high sensitivities can be
archived using pulse signals and coherent detection. Commercial IR intruder
beam sensors are available. Ultrasonic detectors working in the 40 KHz range
will also detect animals and can be used to measure velocity. Small animals,
some birds, bats and insects may be able to sense these signals.
Electrostatic detectors can be of the type which react to static charges or
to RF capacity changes. 10 GHz Radio Intruder Detectors modules are
available, as are pyroelectric heat detector modules. Radio signals may
penetrate sandy soil quite well. None of these techniques need be very
expensive, but it is a great help if you have the services of someone really
competent in electronics.

      You can also use the small surveillance CCD cameras with Infra Red
illumination to monitor animal movements. The modules are fairly reasonably
priced. If you are using a CRT monitor to observe movements, you can use a
lens and a CdS photocell + amplifier to give an alarm or to switch on a video
recorder. Pyroelectric detector modules are also successful for this. I have
used them to detect animals at close range, from field mice upwards in size.

     You need to consider how you are going to separate the signals you want
from noise (wind, rain, vehicles, ground movement) or interfering signals
(other animals) as well as how seriously your equipment will encroach on the
environment or alter the behaviour of the animals that you wish to observe.

     I hope that these suggestions may be of some help. I would appreciate a
brief EMail in reply, please.

     Regards,

     Chris Chapman Subject: FW: Message to the PSN-L was rejected: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 16:28:33 -0700 -----Original Message----- From: Larry Cochrane [mailto:cochrane@............... Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 2:45 PM To: Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo Subject: Re: Message to the PSN-L was rejected: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" Hi Kareem, I see that your message to the PSN-L list was rejected. If you didn't attach anything try again so I can see what's going on. I just made a change to the attachment blocker code so I can debug the problem. -Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 1:46 PM Subject: Message to the PSN-L was rejected: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" > There was an error processing a message to the PSN-L list. > Error Type: No attachments allowed in email messages to PSN-L. > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Fw: PSN Meeting - cancel? From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 16:37:06 -0700 Dick and others, Unfortunately I have to agree. I only got a few response to attend it, and one has dropped out, so I think we should cancel it. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Webb" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 6:45 AM Subject: PSN Meeting > Larry, > > I have a funny feeling that the idea of getting together during the SSA > meeting is not working out. I saw that Karl is not able to > attend. Perhaps it's best to drop the idea unless there is some way of > meeting at the Hotel. > > Dick > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New SDR release. PC-LAB 711S A/D card user needed. From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 17:24:38 -0700 Greetings, I have a new SDR release ready. Since I don't have a working PC-Lab 711S A/D card I can't test the new release with this board. If you are a SDR user using this A/D card please give it a try and let me no if it works or doesn't work with your board. The new release can be downloaded here: http://www.seismicnet.com/sdrdocs/sdr.htm. I have also update the documentation (the part I hate the most!) reflecting the new changes to the program. Since I have made some changes to SDR, mostly on how it handles the interrupt from the A/D card and memory management, I'm calling this version 4.0b. The changes I made allow SDR to record up to 8 channels at 100 samples per second (or less) or up to 4 channels at 200 SPS. Before SDR would only use up to 6 of the 8 channels on the A/D card and it didn't have the 200 SPS mode. Also new with this release are two new menu items controlling the new STA/LTA triggering. I added a LTA Minimum field that controls how low the LTA (Long Term Average) number can go. This controls the overall trigger sensitivity for the channel. The larger the number the larger the event (or noise) will have to be to trigger the channel. I also added a field that controls how long the channel stays in the pre-trigger condition. The default is 10 seconds. Before upgrading, replay and extract any event files. The new version can not use the old daily record files. New ones will be created when you run the new SDR release. As always let me know if you run into any problems. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: winquake expiration From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 21:24:59 -0700 Don, My beta releases have timeouts in them. You will need to upgrade to the next beta release of WinQuake. I will be releasing it later tonight or tomorrow. -Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Wheeler" To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 8:20 PM Subject: winquake > Larry, > > Have been using the upgraded version of Winquake and am now getting an > expiration message in XX days. I checked the registration and it tells > me it is registered. > > Is this normal or do I need to purchase the upgrade? > > Thanks, > > Don Wheeler > Carroll High School > Monroe, Louisiana > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: New SDR release. PC-LAB 711S A/D card user needed. From: "Wayne Abraham" gold1146@........... Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:59:49

Larry

I can't seem to get the DOS mode (ctrl-D) to work on the new SDR.

Wayne



 

>Greetings,
>
>I have a new SDR release ready. Since I don't have a working PC-Lab 711S A/D
>card I can't test the new release with this board. If you are a SDR user
>using this A/D card please give it a try and let me no if it works or
>doesn't work with your board.
>
Larry
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www .hotmail.com.

Subject: RE: PSN Meeting - cancel?--What about May 12th? From: "Steve Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:43:12 -0700 I agree Larry and Dick we need a daytime Saturday date and time. Why don't we set a data in May and see how many people will attend. I'll offer my home in Aptos for the meeting. Saturday May 12th at 10:30AM. For reference, it takes 1:30 min to travel to Aptos from downtown San Francisco. I live five minutes from the beach, which some might find convenient, or for the brave-hearted, some might want to hike/bike up to the Loma Prieta Epicenter site in the Forest of Niseme Marks State Park. The trail head is down the street from my house in the Village. Take a look at http://www.aptoschamber.com/tourism/map.html to get a better idea about the area. I'll even offer BBQ burgers and soda on the sundeck following the meeting. Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of Larry Cochrane Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 4:37 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Fw: PSN Meeting - cancel? Dick and others, Unfortunately I have to agree. I only got a few response to attend it, and one has dropped out, so I think we should cancel it. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Webb" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 6:45 AM Subject: PSN Meeting > Larry, > > I have a funny feeling that the idea of getting together during the SSA > meeting is not working out. I saw that Karl is not able to > attend. Perhaps it's best to drop the idea unless there is some way of > meeting at the Hotel. > > Dick > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Attachments to the PSN-L list From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:24:38 -0700 Kareem and PSN'ers, Your message contains an attachment called winmail.dat. You need to disable this "option" in your email program. If you are using one of Microsoft's mailers please read this web page: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q138/0/53.asp -Larry Cochrane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:47 AM > Larry, > > It doesn't seem to work; I can't post to the PSN. > > Kareem Lanier > www.HeyJooJoo.com > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:45:12 -0700 test (pl text) Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: anyone? From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:00:44 -0700 Does anyone have a PS-1 or 2 portable seismographic recording system? Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: PSN meeting June 16th From: "Steve Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:23:17 -0700 I have received a few off-line comments and because of graduation, the latest suggested date for the PSN meeting in the Bay Area is now Sat. June 16th. Please respond to the L-PSN list with your comments about this new date. Also, my offer to hold the meet at my home in Aptos still stands, however, alternative suggestions are welcome. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: is anyone there? From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:58:50 -0700 Hi Larry, Where have the board users gone? I used to get about 4-8 PSN posting emails a-day. It has ceased dramatically recently and so I'm a little concerned that I'm missing messages. Is anyone home? Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: is anyone there? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:08:41 EDT In a message dated 11/04/01, kareemjupiter@............. writes: > Hi Larry, > Where have the board users gone? I used to get about 4-8 PSN posting emails > Us chickens are a quiet bunch. Glad to see Winmail.dat has gone! Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 11/04/01, kareemjupiter@............. writes:

Hi Lar ry,
Where have the board users gone? I used to get about 4-8 PSN posting emails
a-day. It has ceased dramatically recently. Is anyone home? Kareem Lanier


      Us chickens are a quiet bunch. Glad to see Winmail.dat has gone!
      Regards, Chris Chapman Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:21:09 -0700 Hi Steve -- I would like to attend, and June 16 sounds fine. Any Saturday is fine with me, and much better than a weekday. I appreciate your generous offer to host the meeting at your house. Karl At 05:23 PM 4/10/2001 -0700, you wrote: >I have received a few off-line comments and because of graduation, the >latest suggested date for the PSN meeting in the Bay Area is now Sat. June >16th. Please respond to the L-PSN list with your comments about this new >date. Also, my offer to hold the meet at my home in Aptos still stands, >however, alternative suggestions are welcome. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Email failed From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:00:22 -0700 Nick and PSN'ers, I saw in my mail server's log file that some email messages from you were rejected. I use several real-time spam blocking services to block spam from getting to any account on my server. It appears that the server you used is on the blocking list. Here's the log info: ---- SMTPRA log entry made at 04/11/2001 08:37:34 SMTP command failed when talking to 207.69.200.148: >>> MAIL From: SIZE=598 <<< 550 5.7.1 This system is configured to reject mail from 207.69.200.148 (Host blacklisted - see http://maps.vix.com/rbl/) The ip address above comes back to blount.mail.mindspring.net. I believe Mindspring bought out Netcom. Since you have an account on Yahoo you will need to use it to send messages to me and the list until they are removed from the blocking list. I would complain to your ISP about it since more and more servers are using the blocking services. Lately mindspring.net has been a large source of spam so I'm glad they were placed on the blocking list. I need to use the blocking lists because without them I get over 20 spam emails each day. I still get 5 to 6 each day since spammers keep using new systems that aren't on the blocking list. I must be on every spammers mailing list. This happened because I posted a few messages to newsgroups with my correct email address when I first got on the Internet. My only other option is to change my email address. For more information about spam blocking see www.orbs.org and http://maps.vix.com/rbl/. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas A Caporossi" To: "Larry Cochrane" Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:52 PM Subject: Email failed > Hi Larry: > Your Email ID: Cochrane@.............. is not working > for me. I send a > couple of messages to you and they got bounced back. > Is the problem at my end? > They DID NOT have an attachment to them. They were > quiet small about 2k. > > Nick > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: anyone? PS1 PS2 From: Arie Verveer ajbv@............ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:22:20 +0800 Hi Kareem, A friend of mine has the PS1 and PS2 model's, and both of these devices work well. The only short coming, is they rely on your PC or notebook to keep time, and as we all know that will require some external programs. The other point, and I'm not sure on this, is the their is no conversion program from the PSx output to a compatible "winquake" format. If the format is known it would be possible to write a conversion program. Other than those to point the units work well for local quakes. I believe one unit is equipped with a (X,Y,Z) 4.5 Hz geophone. This makes the device useful for local quake detection. But remember local ground noise can be a problem. Cheers Arie > > Does anyone have a PS-1 or 2 portable seismographic recording system? > > Kareem Lanier > www.HeyJooJoo.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New WinQuake Release From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:16:05 -0700 Greetings, I released a new version of WinQuake today. You can down load the beta release here: http://www.seismicnet.com/software.html Here's what's new in this release: I fixed a bug in how WQ saves data in the new PSN format. The spec says to save two CRC (a way of checking the validity of data) bytes at the end of the file even if the CRC is not calculated. SDR, while not calculating the CRC, did save the two bytes at the end of the file and set the NO_CRC flag in the header section. When WQ updated the file, it would set the CRC flag but not write out the two bytes at the end of the file. Since older beta release did use the CRC bytes it wasn't a problem. This release calculates and saves the CRC bytes when saving the event file and if the NO_CRC flag is clear, it will test the CRC when reading in an event file. If the calculated CRC does not match the CRC bytes in the file you will get an error message. Since people are sending in event files in the new format I created a simple program to check all of the event files on my system to see if they are two bytes short. If an event file was short the program would append two bytes to the end of the file. If you are sending in event files in the new format please upgrade to this release before sending anymore in. This release has a new dialog box that displays the RMS (Root Means Square), minimum, maximum and mean of the viewed data. This dialog box can be opened by using the Calculate and RMS / Max / Min menu items. Thanks it. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: help ? From: "JORD" jord@............ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:35:55 -0400 An amateur question Is it better too have a fast trace or slow trace? my trace is set at 6=20 And for compression, is higher or lower better? this is set at 18 Thank You=20 Randy.........Toronto...
An  amateur question
Is it better too have a fast trace or = slow trace?=20 my trace is set at 6
And for compression, is higher or lower = better? this is set at 18
 
Thank You
Randy.........Toronto...
 
Subject: Re: help ? From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:50:18 -0500 Hello JORD, I presently run my X at 25 and the Y depends on the channel. I have run the X at various different setting. It's only what you like that matters. Friday, April 13, 2001, 3:35:55 PM, you wrote: J> An amateur question J> Is it better too have a fast trace or slow trace? my trace is set at 6 J> And for compression, is higher or lower better? this is set at 18 J> Thank You J> Randy.........Toronto... -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: John Lahr's diamagnetic levitated graphite video From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:15:44 -0700 Hi all, On John Lahr's web site is acouple pictures of his spectroscopic graphite rod levitating over a unique magnet setup. Especially good is a video of the graphite rod freely oscillating back and forth over the magnets and within its channel. Its a 1.2mb MPEG download, which will play on the Microsoft Windows Media Player, and with that programs controls, it can be replayed of course. Its unknown whether it will play the video with other browsers? See: http://lahr.org/john-jan/physics/maglev/glev/ This particular basic type layout was found by David Lamb around January 2001; and it seems to have a real good potential for use as a tiltmeter/seismometer with development of a light sensor circuit, and the application of a aluminum damping medium with a "flag" to discern motion. Currently the magnets are not available per Forcefield, but its hoped that a quanity become available ~ June/July 2001. The spectroscopic rods used are likely old stock (circa 1960's-1970's), but its highly likely that there are sources of similar diamagnetic (or better or worse) 1/8" spectroscopic rods available. One real advantage with this graphite is that its cost is greatly lower than with some other special graphite used in levitation. There are plus's and minus's possible with this type of layout. Probably most evident is that the levitation assembly is itself most of the usual "boom, mast, mass and etc", involved in construction. When leveled and the rod length adjusted, its possible to get periods of from ~ 1 sec up to ~ 4 seconds. One negative is that with the "mass" being lightweight, it will very likely have a unknown amount of Brownian noise associated with it. Regards, Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: help ? From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:52:12 -0700 Randy, The X and Y scales are only for the display. They do not effect the data = saved to disk or event files produced when you replay the data or when = SDR saves event files automatically. Normally you would have an X scale = value somewhere between 40 and 100 so you can see a few hours worth of = time on the screen. For the Y scale it depends on the number of lines = per screen. The more lines you display the higher the Y scale number = will have to be so the lines don't overlap. -Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JORD=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 1:35 PM Subject: help ? An amateur question Is it better too have a fast trace or slow trace? my trace is set at 6 = And for compression, is higher or lower better? this is set at 18 Thank You=20 Randy.........Toronto...
Randy,
 
The X and Y scales are only for the = display. They=20 do not effect the data saved to disk or event files produced when you = replay the=20 data or when SDR saves event files automatically. Normally you would = have=20 an X scale value somewhere between 40 and 100 so you can see a = few=20 hours worth of time on the screen. For the Y scale it depends on the = number of=20 lines per screen. The more lines you display the higher the Y scale = number will=20 have to be so the lines don't overlap.
 
-Larry Cochrane
Redwood City, PSN 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 JORD
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 = 1:35=20 PM
Subject: help ?

An  amateur = question
Is it better too have a fast trace or = slow trace?=20 my trace is set at 6
And for compression, is higher or = lower=20 better? this is set at 18
 
Thank You
Randy.........Toronto...
 
Subject: Testing of Geophones From: "Wayne Abraham" gold1146@........... Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:56:52

Hello all

Is there any way of checking the operating specifications of a geophone? I own a Mar k Products geophone with no specs and would like to check it to know its voltage output.

Thanks,
Wayne


Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at htt p://www.hotmail.com.

Subject: test From: "Kareem Lanier, Sir JooJoo" kareemjupiter@............. Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 14:57:18 -0700 test Kareem Lanier www.HeyJooJoo.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: CRC-16 Algorithm From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 10:52:46 -0700 Michael, I updated the STALTA.ZIP file with the source code I use to generate the CRC16. You can download it here ftp://www.seismicnet.com/software/stalta.zip. -Larry Cochrane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael J. Roseberry" To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 8:09 PM Subject: CRC-16 Algorithm > Larry: > > Seems I remember that there are a handfull of different algorithms used > for caculating a 16-bit CRC value. The basic theme is the same -- a > feedback shift register done in software -- but the bit locations that > are fedback (cycled) differ from one algorithm to another (in fact, I > remember the names of the different CRC-16 algorithms took their names > from the list of bit locations used for feedback). > > I was wondering if you have published the details (such as which bits > are feedback from the 16-bit word) of the CRC-16 algorithm you chose to > incorporate in your software? If so, where can I learn of it. > > Thank you, > Michael J. Roseberry > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: seismometers for sale From: "Scott Sona Snibbe" scott@.......... Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 21:00:23 -0700 Hi folks, I have 2 seismometer/geophones for sale, which I thought your community = might like to know about. I listed them on ebay in the hopes of getting = these sensors to someone who can really use them: Mark Products Seismometer Seismic Sensor http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230529926 Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230531902 =20 Best Wishes, scott
Hi folks,
 
I have 2 seismometer/geophones for = sale, which I=20 thought your community might like to know about. I listed them on ebay = in the=20 hopes of getting these sensors to someone who can really use = them:
 
Mark Products Seismometer Seismic = Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230= 529926

Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1230= 531902

 
Best=20 Wishes,
scott
 
 
 
 
Subject: Re: seismometers for sale From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:13:24 EDT In a message dated 16/04/01, scott@.......... writes: > I have 2 seismometer/geophones for sale. I listed them on ebay in the hopes > of getting these sensors to someone who can really use them: > > Mark Products Seismometer Seismic Sensor > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=1230529926 > > Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=1230531902 Dear Scott, Thanks for the interesting references. Can you tell us please which model number geophones, their frequency rating and resistance please? Regards, Chris Chapman In a message dated 16/04/01, scott@.......... writes:

I have 2 seismometer/geophones for sale. I listed them on ebay in the hopes
of getting these sensors to someone who can really use them:

Mark Products Seismometer Seismic Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt em&item=1230529926

Mark Products Seismometer/Geophone Sensor
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt em&item=1230531902


Dear Scott,

      Thanks for the interesting references. Can you tell us please which
model number geophones, their frequency rating and resistance please?

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: seismic coda From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:11:06 -0400 --From Phys. Rev. Lett. 86, 3447 For minutes after the violent shaking of an earthquake, the ground continues to rock imperceptibly. Seismologists are unclear about the cause of this so-called seismic coda, but the 9 April PRL presents new evidence that may resolve the question. While some seismologists assume that the coda comes from waves that scatter only once before reaching the surface, the authors found evidence that the vibrations reflect many times within the Earth before being detected. They used an array of seismometers that could distinguish several types of shaking and showed that energy is divided equally among them, as theory predicts for multiply scattered waves. (R. Hennino et al., Phys. Rev. Lett. 86, 3447. Link to the paper: http://publish.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v86/p3447/ COMPLETE Focus story at http://focus.aps.org/v7/st17.html) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: seismometer for kids? From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:54:04 -0400 Perhaps someone on this list can help this desperate mom. I do not have any expertise in this area. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: A child's quick and easy to build seismometer request > Good Morning, > > I am the Mother of a ten year old boy who was building a seismometer for > a science fair project. > > We are not getting the results we expected. > > We are going out of town and have only two days to finish. Do you have > any suggestions for an easy and quick to build seismometer with materials > from the local hardware store? > > I deeply appreciate your assistance. > > Thanks, Desperate Mom > Ciao, Dave The Inexpensive Seismometer Project http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismometer From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:15:30 -0700 Dear Desperate Mom, Before giving advice, one needs to know some details. In your post to David Saum, which was forwarded to the PSN list, You said; "we are not getting the results we expected" As an intelligent and by nature, helpful person (but we don't suffer fools easily), we would like to know: (1) What did you expect going into the project? Please be specific. (2) What results are you getting? (3) What would you like to change? (4) Is it possible you did not allow enough time to achieve acceptable results? Sometimes these things take weeks. This is not an appliance you turn on and it gives you a number. This is a serious albeit amateur endeavor which needs tender loving care plus a feel for what works and what's crap. If it was a professional project it'd cost 10 to 100 grand in real money. When it's a serious amateur project, you pay for results in time and effort rather than cold cash. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: science fair seis From: sean@........... Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:36:00 -0500 (CDT) Hi seismometer Mom, I agree with Erich's comments. I have often been a judge for the local science fair, and have seen many versions of paper mache' volcanos (models aka "Close Encounters" providing no science), earthquake "predictions" based on caterpillars (a result of selective hearsay and coincidence), and wooden seismometers crushed by an ever increasing mass of bricks in an attempt to get "results". My usual approach to a fair exhibit is to first try to find an explicit statement of the scientific question of the display. This is the "how do we know ...." or "Why does" or some hypothesis that can be demonstrated by a simple experiment (beans grow faster in an electric field). If there is no question or hypothesis, there can be no scientific test or demonstration of a principle, and therefore, no "results". For a seismograph or seismometer display, the question is "how do we detect the faint ground movement of distant earthquakes". Then I look for some experiment to evaluate the question. Usually the answer is known by science, so showing how we know it is demonstrated by some replication of the physical experiment or, in the case of like math or astronomy, a large poster detailing the logical steps that lead to the conclusion is presented (some have that ring of verbatim Brittanica, especially when a gross error in copying is evident). So for the "how do we know" science display, a demonstration of the core physics is usually presented within the amateur limitations of the student. For a seismometer/seismograph, recording the relative motion of a suspended inertial mass with respect to the moving ground is the key concept. Amplifying the miniscule motion (0.001mm) from a distant quake is more advanced. A comprehensive background poster of earth/core wave propagation is easy to assemble. And a poster with good graphics can detail all the concepts, including wave propagation and quake location without having to build a seismograph. A demo on a map on the table of triangulation of the epicenter location from station S-P travel times represented by using marked tapes is a nice interactive display. A fatal misconception is that some hardware something must be built that should prove or demonstrate the point, (often overlooking the practical alternative of borrowing a professional instrument and then carefully labeling the key components.) This construction then becomes the prime effort of the display even though the student (parent) has not grasped the physics or science involved. Then the display becomes an exhibit of the construction skills of the student (parent), which often blindly copy some article. I have seen beautiful all-wood Lehman type sensors but made with brass cabinet hinges and a brick for a mass with a pencil attached that writes on a tablet placed under the front side. The student got high marks because of the instructions: "slowly slide tablet out while shaking the table"; the principle of the inertial mass was proven, as was the registration of a the waveform passing with time: ie "results". The display even noted that the table shaking was about intensity MM-X, and referred it to a graphic about intensity. However, often the entire point is missed and the "results" are faked; ie."simulated". One seismometer display had a lead pipe hanging on a spring, with the attached pencil writing on a paper cylinder resting on an open clock face (sort of turned by the minute hand). There was a nice tracing of a teleseism, carefully labeled to agree with an attached news clipping. But no current demonstration of how the data was or could be made. (Fair judges often converge on a display that challenges their ability to "make it work", and sometimes make adjustments or add something that does make it work). The value of an exhibit is proportional to the time devoted to it. A good high school project will take about a year, with the last half devoted to building whatever and trying to make it work. Then, in the case of a sensitive seismograph (with a magnification of at least 1000,) you might have to wait a month for a significantly large earthquake to record on it. But I have never seen any seismograph displays involving even rudimentary electronics (moving coil/magnet and amplifier), but this is the midwest rather than California, and although electricity is a high school subject, the practical usefulness of it remains elusive. And a final note: "quick" and "easy" have nothing to do with science. Regards, Sean-Thomas Morrissey St. Louis University. PS: there is a design for a hardware store seismometer using modern electronics that is neither quick (could be done in a devoted month) nor easy (those darn electronics parts) described at: http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html stmseis.html" The STM-8 Leaf Spring Seismometer: Photos and Report stmfigs.html" The STM-8 Seis: Figures, Schematics, Drawings stmquakes.html" The STM-8 Seis: Recent Quakes, Data __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: science fair seis From: "J. D. Cooley" cooleyj@.................... Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:04:13 -0700 This was EXCELLENT. Thank you very much for this insight into what a science fair judge is looking for. Although my children are already grown, I will give this to the parents of my 7-year-old grandson, so that it can be used as a guide! Once again, thank you, "JD" Cooley At 03:36 PM 4/17/01 , Sean-Thomas Morrissey wrote: >Hi seismometer Mom, > >I agree with Erich's comments. > >I have often been a judge for the local science fair, and have seen >many versions of paper mache' volcanos (models aka "Close Encounters" >providing no science), earthquake "predictions" based on caterpillars >(a result of selective hearsay and coincidence), and wooden seismometers >crushed by an ever increasing mass of bricks in an attempt to get >"results". > >My usual approach to a fair exhibit is to first try to find an explicit >statement of the scientific question of the display. This is the >"how do we know ...." or "Why does" or some hypothesis that can >be demonstrated by a simple experiment (beans grow faster in an >electric field). If there is no question or hypothesis, there can be >no scientific test or demonstration of a principle, and therefore, >no "results". For a seismograph or seismometer display, the question >is "how do we detect the faint ground movement of distant earthquakes". > >Then I look for some experiment to evaluate the question. Usually >the answer is known by science, so showing how we know it is >demonstrated by some replication of the physical experiment or, >in the case of like math or astronomy, a large poster detailing the >logical steps that lead to the conclusion is presented (some have >that ring of verbatim Brittanica, especially when a gross error in >copying is evident). > >So for the "how do we know" science display, a demonstration of the >core physics is usually presented within the amateur limitations of >the student. For a seismometer/seismograph, recording the relative >motion of a suspended inertial mass with respect to the moving ground >is the key concept. Amplifying the miniscule motion (0.001mm) >from a distant quake is more advanced. A comprehensive background >poster of earth/core wave propagation is easy to assemble. And a >poster with good graphics can detail all the concepts, including >wave propagation and quake location without having to build a >seismograph. A demo on a map on the table of triangulation of the >epicenter location from station S-P travel times represented by >using marked tapes is a nice interactive display. > >A fatal misconception is that some hardware something must be built >that should prove or demonstrate the point, (often overlooking the >practical alternative of borrowing a professional instrument and >then carefully labeling the key components.) This construction then >becomes the prime effort of the display even though the student >(parent) has not grasped the physics or science involved. Then the >display becomes an exhibit of the construction skills of the student >(parent), which often blindly copy some article. > >I have seen beautiful all-wood Lehman type sensors but made with >brass cabinet hinges and a brick for a mass with a pencil attached >that writes on a tablet placed under the front side. The student >got high marks because of the instructions: "slowly slide tablet >out while shaking the table"; the principle of the inertial mass >was proven, as was the registration of a the waveform passing with >time: ie "results". The display even noted that the table shaking >was about intensity MM-X, and referred it to a graphic about intensity. > >However, often the entire point is missed and the "results" are >faked; ie."simulated". One seismometer display had a lead pipe hanging >on a spring, with the attached pencil writing on a paper cylinder resting >on an open clock face (sort of turned by the minute hand). There was a >nice tracing of a teleseism, carefully labeled to agree with an >attached news clipping. But no current demonstration of how the >data was or could be made. (Fair judges often converge on a display >that challenges their ability to "make it work", and sometimes make >adjustments or add something that does make it work). > >The value of an exhibit is proportional to the time devoted to it. >A good high school project will take about a year, with the last >half devoted to building whatever and trying to make it work. >Then, in the case of a sensitive seismograph (with a magnification of >at least 1000,) you might have to wait a month for a significantly >large earthquake to record on it. > >But I have never seen any seismograph displays involving even rudimentary >electronics (moving coil/magnet and amplifier), but this is the >midwest rather than California, and although electricity is a >high school subject, the practical usefulness of it remains elusive. > >And a final note: "quick" and "easy" have nothing to do with science. > >Regards, >Sean-Thomas Morrissey >St. Louis University. > >PS: there is a design for a hardware store seismometer using modern >electronics that is neither quick (could be done in a devoted month) >nor easy (those darn electronics parts) described at: > >http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html > >stmseis.html" The STM-8 Leaf Spring Seismometer: Photos and Report >stmfigs.html" The STM-8 Seis: Figures, Schematics, Drawings >stmquakes.html" The STM-8 Seis: Recent Quakes, Data > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: No Expertise?? From: "Erich Kern" efkern@............. Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:52:24 -0700 David, Please correct me if I'm off base, but your response to the post by pamelastartup@....... completely baffles me since she was referencing your website and yet you asked list members to give her questions an answer, which I and several other members did. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: School Seismograph Project From: Jim ODonnell jimo17@........ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:16:14 -0700 To the Damsel in distress trying to help a budding scientist & other PSN Members: Try the UC- Berkeley Seismological Laboratory (my Alma Mater) at- http://www.seismo.berkeley.edu/seismo/faq/seismometer.html and go to: For additional information, there is a quite complete FAQ on home-built seismometer systems at Homebuilt Seismograph FAQ Several groups/organizations provide support or tools for using a seismometer in the classroom. Here is a sampling MichSeis Princeton Earth Physics Project and Larry Braile of Purdue has written several lessons on using a seismometer in the classroom Handheld Seismometer (Pamela this should do the trick-Jim) Educational Seismograph AS-1 Seismograph Finally, there is a wonderful Java application demonstrating the principles of seismometer operation. The Seismometer Demo Applet Good luck! Also David Saum has a geophone(SP) or LP seismograph system which I and others are Beta testing. The geophone system sells for ~$125 and I have recently recorded several local Eq's M<2 @ ~<50 Km's. You can see his Web page at: http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ This system is by far the most affordable that I know of, but not ready for a school project yet!!!!!.....Jim Jim O'Donnell Registered Geologist in California , 1970 Registered Geophysicist in California , 1974 UNLV Adjunct Faculty Member Geosciences Dept. & Engineering Geophysics Lab. Member Nevada Earthquake Safety Council
To the Damsel in distress trying to help a budding scientist & = other=20 PSN Members:
 
Try the UC- Berkeley Seismological Laboratory (my= Alma=20 Mater) at-
http://= www.seismo.berkeley.edu/seismo/faq/seismometer.html
and go to: For additional information, there is a quite complete FAQ = on=20 home-built seismometer systems at Homebuilt Seismograph = FAQ=20

Several groups/organizations provide support or tools for using a = seismometer=20 in the classroom. Here is a sampling=20

         MichSeis=20

and Larry Braile of Purdue has written = several=20 lessons on using a seismometer in the classroom
  • = Handheld=20 Seismometer (Pamela this should do the trick-Jim)
  • = Educational=20 Seismograph=20
  • AS-1=20 Seismograph

Finally, there is a wonderful Java application demonstrating the = principles=20 of seismometer operation.=20

Good luck!

Also David Saum has a geophone(SP) or LP seismograph system which I= and=20 others are Beta testing.  The geophone system sells for ~$125 and= I=20 have recently recorded several local Eq's M<2 @ ~<50 Km's.  You = can=20 see his Web page at: http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/ =20 This system is by far the most affordable that I know of, but not ready for= a=20 school project yet!!!!!.....Jim

<= /A>Jim=20 O'Donnell
Registered Geologist in California , 1970
Registered=20 Geophysicist in California , 1974
UNLV Adjunct Faculty Member = Geosciences=20 Dept. & Engineering Geophysics Lab. Member Nevada Earthquake Safety=20 Council

 

 

Subject: RE: No Expertise?? From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:53:31 -0400 Erich, Perhaps David meant expertise with science fair projects and the idea of developing a simple seismogram for a science fair. Some of can build crude seismograms out of wood, a brick, string and an ink pen, others cannot and prefer to stick to more elaborate instruments that are way above the understanding of a lay person and 10 yr. old. I dare say that all of the instruments noted within this community are not for the novice who doesn't really have much time to work with. Lastly, I felt that your response to the mother and inevitably her son, while it may be truthful, was brash. Really intelligent people who are willing to assist others must be diplomatic if, as a group, we expect to succeed in bringing today's youngsters and others into a truly gratifying area of study. -----Original Message----- From: Erich Kern [mailto:efkern@.............. Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 12:52 AM To: DSaum@............ Cc: PSN-L Mailing List; Chris Chapman Subject: No Expertise?? David, Please correct me if I'm off base, but your response to the post by pamelastartup@....... completely baffles me since she was referencing your website and yet you asked list members to give her questions an answer, which I and several other members did. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No Expertise?? From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:53:31 -0400 Erich, Perhaps David meant expertise with science fair projects and the idea of developing a simple seismogram for a science fair. Some of can build crude seismograms out of wood, a brick, string and an ink pen, others cannot and prefer to stick to more elaborate instruments that are way above the understanding of a lay person and 10 yr. old. I dare say that all of the instruments noted within this community are not for the novice who doesn't really have much time to work with. Lastly, I felt that your response to the mother and inevitably her son, while it may be truthful, was brash. Really intelligent people who are willing to assist others must be diplomatic if, as a group, we expect to succeed in bringing today's youngsters and others into a truly gratifying area of study. -----Original Message----- From: Erich Kern [mailto:efkern@.............. Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 12:52 AM To: DSaum@............ Cc: PSN-L Mailing List; Chris Chapman Subject: No Expertise?? David, Please correct me if I'm off base, but your response to the post by pamelastartup@....... completely baffles me since she was referencing your website and yet you asked list members to give her questions an answer, which I and several other members did. Regards, Erich Kern __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: science fair seis From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:49:19 EDT Sean-Thomas, Many thanks for posting your letter concerning helping "Desperate Mom" finish her son's seismograph in a couple of days. I wrote to her direct saying I could do nothing to help her finish it in two days but encouraging her to try again next year and promising I'd help her. This morning I got an answer saying "thanks, but no thanks". Like you, I am a judge at the science fairs and my experience confirms that what you have said pretty much sums up what is true of the rest of the science fairs. I recently spent two hours judging nine projects entered by high school students here in Orlando, FL. where we had over 300 entries and more than 100 judges. I find help and support from teachers and parents plays a large part in how much interest the student takes in making a project that amounts to their learning something about doing science. Parents are the most important. If they have no interest in science their kids are not going to be interested. They see it as a homework assignment that should require a few days at most and be over with. Despite the disasters we see I find it very rewarding to be a judge at the fair each year. A question I always ask is whether they are thinking of pursuing a career in science or engineering. This year only one answered yes. She was an Asian girl and her project was well done and I'm sure she spent months preparing it for the fair because it was the best of the nine I judged. Just one is enough to keep me judging the fairs. I hope some of the rest of you PSN seismo builders will consider volunteering to be science fair judges. It's a very rewarding experience and something we can do to help society produce the scientists and engineers our country will need in the future. Best regards, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: science fair seis From: "bobshannon.org" earth@........... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:50:51 -0700 That is too bad....She might have taken your advice and gone on to better things next year. I also wrote her privately suggesting to her that asking for advice on the project 2 days away and then adding a trip was planned also, made it almost impossible to do anything for this year and to take the lumps... I have 7 kids....All that have completed high school did a science fair project. I still have two at home and this year I am going to have them work together on the site that Jim ODonnell suggested! What a wonderful URL! Thanks Jim. Out of 7 kids I have a BS RN who is working on her NP MS and a Physical Therapist son who is working on a PhD. Both of these kids did science fairs not so long ago (*at least it seems that way to an aging parent). One did a demonstration of liquifaction and won the fair top prize. It always makes a dad proud when something I had been doing seems to have rubbed off....Again thanks Jim! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:49 AM Subject: Re: science fair seis > Sean-Thomas, > > Many thanks for posting your letter concerning helping "Desperate Mom" finish > her son's seismograph in a couple of days. I wrote to her direct saying I > could do nothing to help her finish it in two days but encouraging her to try > again next year and promising I'd help her. This morning I got an answer > saying "thanks, but no thanksmore information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Expertise? Please! From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:18:22 EDT It would be most helpful when forwarding requests for help, advice, etc., if the PSN member would find out and describe the background of the situation and say what advice he has given. I am quite happy to try and help, but the problems are usually only stated in very general terms. Attempting to 'fix' a seismometer by EMail in two days suggests that recommending a prayer for divine intervention might be suitable advice, but addressing the wrong deity could loose you friends and still not influence people! Regards, Chris Chapman      It would be most helpful when forwarding request s for help, advice,
etc., if the PSN member would find out and describe the background of the
situation and say what advice he has given. I am quite happy to try and help,
but the problems are usually only stated in very general terms. Attempting to
'fix' a seismometer by EMail in two days suggests that recommending a prayer
for divine intervention might be suitable advice, but addressing the wrong
deity could loose you friends and still not influence people!

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Expertise? Please! From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:05:35 -0700 This is a test of Larry's anti-spam software, which has been rejecting my e-mail for about a week. My ISP is a major vendor in Silicon Valley and one of the alegedly reputable ones, but seems to be in the data base of abusers in Larry's software. As instructed in the "bounce-back" message, I forwarded the information to my ISP. If you are reading this, they may have managed to get their name off the "bad-ISP" list. Spam is a serious problem, I get about 50/day by virtue of running a home business with a web site. It's an inconvenience at home and a real burden on the road using a hotel dial-up connection. The spammers have software that mines web sites for e-mail addresses and compiles lists. You can buy a CD ROM with several million addresses for about $30, and since e-mail is free, send out millions of junk for free. I'm ready for that tax on e-mail just to eliminate this. To be consistent with this thread, here is a copy of my response sent by regular e-mail to the mom with the science fair problem. While all the comments were valid and helpful, this was my approach to creating a display in two days for a 10-year old. Admittedly, we're not talking great science here, and certainly not a winning entry, but probably some good parent-child quality time. > Desperate Mom > Construct a simple seismograph from hardware store materials? > One method is to use a plumb bob, available from your local hardware > store. Construct a pendulum with the plumb bob. Make the string long > enough so that the period is about one second. Construct an aparatus to > hold the string to make it portable. > After you establish the period, put a tray at the bottom and fill it > with fine sand (level). The sand will provide damping for the pendulum > and record the vibrations when your earthquake comes. > You can see a photo of a similar device at > http://www.earthquakerose.com/ along with a recording from the recent > Seattle earthquake. A downloaded copy of that photo would make a nice > addition to the display at the science fair. -- Doug Crice http://www.georadar.com 19623 Via Escuela Drive phone 408-867-3792 Saratoga, California 95070 USA fax 408-867-4900 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 05:11:51 -1000 I might be in the bay area that week and would love this one-off opportunity to attend. Is this meeting still likely? Thanks __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: PSN meeting June 16th From: "Steve Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:58:37 -0700 At this point we have two responses to have it in Aptos and one offer to hold it in a conference room in downtown San Francisco. Regards, Steve Hammond Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of ian Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:12 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th I might be in the bay area that week and would love this one-off opportunity to attend. Is this meeting still likely? Thanks __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings From: Mike Price mprice@........ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:50:10 -0700 Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: Victor.Taylor@......... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:14:33 -0400 Ask FEMA how and where they compiled their data for these astounding news releases. -----Original Message----- From: mprice@........ [SMTP:mprice@......... Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:50 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: FEMA Report URL From: "Westfall, Ron" RWestfall@........... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:19:07 -0700 Hi If you are interested, the FEMA report can be accessed at: http://www.fema.gov/library/fema354.htm Ron __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismograph From: "Larry Cochrane" cochrane@.............. Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:26:34 -0700 Paul, Sorry, I can't help you. I'm CC'ing the Public Seismic Mailing list. Maybe someone on the list can help you. PSN'ers please send email directly to Paul Hudak. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hudak" To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 7:54 AM Subject: Seismograph > Dear Mr. Cochrane: > > I saw your web page on seismographs. I'm with > the Department of Geography at the University of > North Texas. We are located in the Environmental > Science Building, one of the most visible buildings > on campus. About 20,000 school children come > through the building each year to learn about > geology and the environment. We have various > exhibits and activities for them. Now for the > reason I'm writing ... > > I was wondering if you might be willing to donate > a used seismograph that we could set up > as an exhibit in the building. It wouldn't > have to be too complex. Just something > schoolkids could look at and see how > it works. We are not for profit, > so you could take a tax write off. We would also > acknowledge your contribution by putting your name > right on the exhibit. > > If you are unable to donate something, perhaps you > could direct me to some possible donators. I really > appreciate your time in reading this letter and > considering this request. > > Paul Hudak > Associate Professor > Geography, UNT > hudak@....... > 972 874-0741 > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: FEMA report on steel buildings From: John Hernlund hernlund@............ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:25:50 -0700 LA Times had an article about this a few days back. Apparently building experts in LA are sitting the fence on the issue, since they weren't sure that enough testing had been done on the proposed new joints. As for me, the building I live in survived violent shaking in Santa Monica during Northridge, and afterward was reinforced to be even better than before 1994...that seems like a good criteria to go by. Mike Price wrote: > Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, > especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design > flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between > beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves > for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was > observed in Kobe. > > Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? > If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news > now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame > buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are > more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? > What design changes were introduced? > > Thanks, > Mike Price > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:55:20 -0400 Mike, New FEMA reports are out and perhaps that is the first time that the lay people have heard of this. Those in the business, I'm a structural engineer, have known about this shortly after the Northridge quake. Buildings, of course, were inspected as part of the normal process with FEMA, ATC (220 and 221) and at one particular building where some retrofitting or rehab was underway a crack was found in the connection which propagated through the column apparently originating in or around the welded joint. This, of course, not only leaves the column vulnerable but undermines the vertical load system - bad news. In buildings its better to place a fuse (localized yielding - damage) in the beams. Thus all post-Northridge special moment resistant frames (SMRF) were based on this idea. The areas are hard to find as you might imagine...there is wall board, sheathing, and fire protection on the steel frame. They only reason the cracks were found was because of a rehab job already underway where all that material was ripped out. New connections make use of a number of methods. Too many to list here. One method however, is to "neck" down the beam near the column so that the beam is weaker due to lack of section properties. The damage will manifest there rather than in the column. Hope this helps. If not and you would like some reading check out any steel magazine or log onto www.EERI.org and search through some old SPECTRA articles. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Price [mailto:mprice@......... Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:50 PM To: PSN Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:55:20 -0400 Mike, New FEMA reports are out and perhaps that is the first time that the lay people have heard of this. Those in the business, I'm a structural engineer, have known about this shortly after the Northridge quake. Buildings, of course, were inspected as part of the normal process with FEMA, ATC (220 and 221) and at one particular building where some retrofitting or rehab was underway a crack was found in the connection which propagated through the column apparently originating in or around the welded joint. This, of course, not only leaves the column vulnerable but undermines the vertical load system - bad news. In buildings its better to place a fuse (localized yielding - damage) in the beams. Thus all post-Northridge special moment resistant frames (SMRF) were based on this idea. The areas are hard to find as you might imagine...there is wall board, sheathing, and fire protection on the steel frame. They only reason the cracks were found was because of a rehab job already underway where all that material was ripped out. New connections make use of a number of methods. Too many to list here. One method however, is to "neck" down the beam near the column so that the beam is weaker due to lack of section properties. The damage will manifest there rather than in the column. Hope this helps. If not and you would like some reading check out any steel magazine or log onto www.EERI.org and search through some old SPECTRA articles. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Price [mailto:mprice@......... Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:50 PM To: PSN Subject: FEMA report on steel buildings Yesterday CNN reviewed a FEMA report that steel frame buildings, especially those built prior to 1994, contained a design flaw that concentrated temblor stresses at weld points between beams. New designs move stresses into the beams themselves for increased strength. Apparently this failure mode was observed in Kobe. Can anyone point to more in-depth information about this? If design changes were introduced in 1994, why is this news now? Have there been analyses of high-rise, steel frame buildings in LA or San Francisco that indicate they are more likely to be damaged than was previously thought? What design changes were introduced? Thanks, Mike Price __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: FEMA report on steel buildings From: barry lotz gbl@....... Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:40:19 -0700 Mike Along the same design principal as was mentioned by John. Much research has also been done in the past (I worked on several projects at UC Berkeley in the early 70's) to put "plastic hinges"(really ductile- not plastic as in the material) in reinforced concrete beams a distance away from concrete columns. This provides energy absorption,ductility and protects the load carrying capacity of the columns. Regards Barry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th From: ian ian@........... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:19:24 -1000 Either location is feasable for me, Down town being a little easier. My only difficulty is that I need to book my flights in the next week or so. Is the meeting likely to be confirmed soon? Thanks Steve Hammond wrote: > At this point we have two responses to have it in Aptos and one offer to > hold it in a conference room in downtown San Francisco. > Regards, Steve Hammond Aptos, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. > [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of ian > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:12 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: PSN meeting June 16th > > I might be in the bay area that week and would love this one-off opportunity > to > attend. Is this meeting still likely? > > Thanks > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: FEMA report on steel buildings From: "David A. Nelson" davenn@.............. Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 18:23:23 +1000 At 17:55 20/04/01 -0400, you wrote: >Mike, >New FEMA reports are out and perhaps that is the first time that the lay >people have heard of this. Those in the business, I'm a structural >engineer, have known about this shortly after the Northridge quake. yes i also heard abt this within 12 months of the Northridge earthquake in an article on that quake in the National Geographic magazine it showed pic or 2 of weld failures and comments on how many LA hi-rises were constructed this way Dave Dave A. Nelson ZL4TBN 13 Monash Rd., Gladesville, (Sydney) 2111 NSW, Australia http://www.seismicnet.com/dave/home.htm IF there indeed are other parallel universes... I can now rest in the knowledge, that in at least one of them, I am filthy rich and drive a red Ferrari __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Lehman From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 05:24:01 EDT Hi, I have almost completed a build on an AS2, but cannot find the technical drawings for a damping vane or the damping fluid container. Can anyone supply a link to suitable websites where I can get the dimensions. Thanks Ian UK Extinction is the last step! Hi,

I have almost completed a build on an AS2, but cannot find the technical
drawings for a damping vane or the damping fluid container.
Can anyone supply a link to suitable websites where I can get the dimensions.

Thanks
Ian
UK

Extinction is the last step! Subject: UK From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 07:33:31 EDT Are there any PSN members living in the UK. I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest. Almost completed an AS2 build. Ian Extinction is the last step! Are there any PSN members living in the UK.
I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest.
Almost completed an AS2 build.

Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: lehman damping From: sean@........... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 14:11:19 -0500 (CDT) Ian, Why don't you use electromagnetic damping of the moving coil? Fluid damping of seismometers went away in the 30's. It is mostly guesswork, position dependent, messy, and it is very difficult to make an oil/vane dashpot that critically damps a large mass because of the close clearances needed vs the imprecise movement of the large boom. And just before THE great quake, a beetle will drown itself in the oil. I have described electromagnetic damping previously; it simply involves shunting the main coil with an appropriate resistor. Modern amplifiers have no problem making up for the resulting signal loss. If you know (or can determine) a number of parameters of your coil/magnet, the damping can be exactly calculated. Once installed, you can forget about it, whereas the oil dashpot is a constant p.i.a. You should find it in the PSN archives. If not, I will repeat it. Regards, Sean-Thomas __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: lehman damping From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 15:44:27 EDT Sean-Thomas Thanks, found it on http://www.seismicnet.com/psnlist/991107_215743_1.html I'll read up on it. I expect the damping method is irrelevant provided it has the desired effect and is accurately calibrated. Ian Extinction is the last step! Sean-Thomas

Thanks, found it on http://www.seismicnet.com/psnlist/991107_215743_1.html
I'll read up on it.  I expect the damping method is irrelevant provided it
has the desired effect and is accurately calibrated.

Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: 2001 SSA Meeting in San Francisco From: Dick Webb dwebb2@.............. Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:40:06 -0400 Hi, I just wanted to rub it in a little by mentioning how great the meeting was last week in San Francisco. Not only were the presentations very interesting and educational, but the field trip to the faults east of the bay were great. And, I had the pleasure of meeting Jim Lehman and spending some time with him. You missed a great meeting! Jim took some pictures and said he would send me copies that I can scan. I will send them to the PSN and rub it in some more that you should have come. Perhaps next year at Victoria, BC or the year after in Puerto Rico we can motivate you to attend and even have a PSN meeting for the country and world. Dick __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Free KS36000 seismometers From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 05:47:46 -0500 Hi Everyone, I got this email from a seismolgigt friend. As you all know I live in Panama and can't just jet up and get one of these but if someone does if they could get me one too. I would pick it up latter this year. They look like huge beast!! > >Subject: Free KS36000 seismometers > >The USGS Albuquerque Seismological Laboratory has approximately 40 older KS36000 >seismometers that are free for the taking. Most are in working condition, but many >channels are noisy. Anyone who contacts me before June 30, 2001, and is willing to make >their own arrangements for pick-up, may have as many as they want. First come, first >served. After June 30, 2001, they will be thrown away. > >For more information, contact: > >Charles R. (Bob) Hutt >Scientist-in-Charge >US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY >ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY >801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 >ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 > >Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) >Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) >FAX: (505)-462-3299 >Email: hutt@............... >Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov > > Best regards, Angel mailto: angel@............ www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: UK From: ian ian@........... Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:47:07 -1000 Looks like the answer may be no! I'll be returning to the UK in about a year, though Scotland isn't exactly round the corner from Cheshire. When I get back I'll need to convert from geophones to Lehman. Cheers Ian Smith http://www.iasmith.com KTextinction65Ma@....... wrote: > Are there any PSN members living in the UK. > I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest. > Almost completed an AS2 build. > > Ian > > Extinction is the last step! Looks like the answer may be no!  I'll be returning to the UK in about a year, though Scotland isn't exactly round the corner from Cheshire.

When I get back I'll need to convert from geophones to Lehman.

Cheers

Ian Smith
http://www.iasmith.com
 

KTextinction65Ma@....... wrote:

Are there any PSN members living in the UK.
I am Cheshire based and looking for some local interest.
Almost completed an AS2 build.

Ian

Extinction is the last step!

Subject: Re: UK From: KTextinction65Ma@....... Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 02:26:31 EDT Ian, The answer is yes, had contact direct from a source in England and found another three through that contact. That makes at least five of us here in England. Ian Extinction is the last step! Ian,

The answer is yes, had contact direct from a source in England and found
another three through that contact.  That makes at least five of us here in
England.

Ian

Extinction is the last step! Subject: Re: Free KS36000 seismometers From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:21:26 -0600 Hello Angel and others interested in these seismometers. Bob Hutt has asked me to relay a message to the group regarding these seismometers. He is preparing a corrected text regarding the type of instrument this is and what is required to operate them. AS soon as I get a copy I will post to the group. Briefly, these units are about 5-6 feet long and 8-9 inches in diameter and weigh about 150 pounds. THey require a test box to set them up. In addition, they must be installed in a borehole to operate correctly. They are available for PICK UP only and none can be packed or shipped. Raul Alvarez La Estrellita Observatory Bellvue, CO Angel Rodriguez wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I got this email from a seismolgigt friend. As you all know I live in > Panama and can't just jet up and get one of these but if someone does > if they could get me one too. I would pick it up latter this year. > They look like huge beast!! > > > > >Subject: Free KS36000 seismometers > > > >The USGS Albuquerque Seismological Laboratory has approximately 40 older > KS36000 > >seismometers that are free for the taking. Most are in working condition, > but many > >channels are noisy. Anyone who contacts me before June 30, 2001, and is > willing to make > >their own arrangements for pick-up, may have as many as they want. First > come, first > >served. After June 30, 2001, they will be thrown away. > > > >For more information, contact: > > > >Charles R. (Bob) Hutt > >Scientist-in-Charge > >US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY > >ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY > >801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 > >ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 > > > >Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) > >Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) > >FAX: (505)-462-3299 > >Email: hutt@............... > >Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov > > > > > > > Best regards, > Angel > > mailto: angel@............ > > www.volcanbaru.com > > __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:10:10 -0600 Hi All, OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please contact him if you have any furhter questions. Attachment follows: Raul, Here is the amended message on the free seismometers. Regards, Bob Hutt >Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:08:36 -0700 (PDT) >From: Bulkmail System >Subject: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers >To: undisclosed-recipients:; > >Subject: More on "Free" Seismometers > >Due to the large number of inquiries regarding the "free" KS36000 borehole >seismometers, >more explanation is necessary: > >NOTE THAT THESE SEISMOMETERS ARE VERY DEFINITELY NOT SUITABLE FOR THE AMATEUR >SEISMOLOGIST OR HIGH SCHOOL. THEY ARE EXPENSIVE TO DEPLOY AND OPERATE, >AND REQUIRE >SPECIAL HANDLING EQUIPMENT. THEY ARE THEREFORE NOT QUITE "FREE." > >1. USGS/ASL is not in a position to "pack up and ship" any of these units >to anyone. >You must come pick them up yourself. There are no shipping containers >available. They >may be transported (very carefully) in the back of a van or a truck. Each >unit weighs >about 150 lbs and is 5.5 inches in diameter and 6 feet >long. Accelerations greater than >about 2G may destroy them. > >2. Special handling equipment is required: Test Set/Controller for >installation (we >only have 6); winch and mast assembly (we have none); a special >(expensive) cable made >both for lifting and signal hookup (we have none); and a borehole to put >them in. All >the special equipment would have to be purchased from Geotech Instruments >LLC: > Phone: 214-221-0000. > >3. These seismometers do not come with any recording equipment of any >kind. They are >only the transducer that converts ground motion into electrical signals. > >4. We will not be ready for anyone to pick up any seismometers this >week. They are >currently on Kirtland AFB and are inaccessible to the public. We will >make them publicly >accessible for pickup by May 7, 2001, at our warehouse near the airport in >Albuquerque. >Do not plan on picking any up before that date. > >5. Limited list of Specifications: May be installed at up to 1,000 feet >depth, with >proper cable and connector. Power: 22-28 VDC, approx. 5 >watts. Three-axis (vertical >and two orthogonal horizontals). Amplitude response from each >axis: 5,600 v/m/s/s from >4.2 Hz to 3 sec period, then increasing (6 db/oct) to peak of 126,000 >v/m/s/s at 80 sec >period, then decreasing at 6 db/oct at longer periods. Falls of at 12 >db/oct at >frequencies higher than 4.2 Hz. Suitable for teleseismic work. More >specifications may >be obtained from Geotech Instruments. > >6. Only about 4 of the ~40 seismometers have been tested and found to be >partially >operational (some channels very noisy or not working, other channels >fairly good). The >condition of the other 36 instruments is unknown, although they were >supposedly working >when un-installed 2-3 years ago from foreign locations. > >For those of you who have contacted USGS/ASL so far, please make contact >again and let us >know if you are still interested. > >Charles R. (Bob) Hutt, PhD >Scientist-in-Charge >US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY >ALBUQUERQUE SEISMOLOGICAL LABORATORY >801 UNIVERSITY SE, SUITE 300 >ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87106-4345 > >Telephone: (505)-462-3200 (main office no.) >Telephone: (505)-462-3201 (direct line) >FAX: (505)-462-3299 >Email: hutt@............... >Web: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:02:53 EDT In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ralvarez@........ writes: << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> Hi Raul, A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it. And the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck somewhere in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these fine top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing company where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us who are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the first to say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to cover whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first offer I'd appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent separately by UPS. Best Regards, Cap Casper Hossfield 935 Warwick Turnpike Hewitt, NJ 07421 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re[2]: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: Angel Rodriguez angel@............ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:23:16 -0500 Hello Cap, I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him earlier today. "... I know that the amateur community is quite organized and collectively very resourceful and handy. I do not know how you plan to dispose of the test set /controller units, but before you "dump" the KS36000 please offer them along with the controllers to someone in the amateur community through the PSN list. Then then that person could ship the test set "on loan" to members who were willing to bore a hole and bear the expense of operating and maintaining a KS36000. regards ángel Wednesday, April 25, 2001, 8:02:53 PM, you wrote: Cac> In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cac> ralvarez@........ writes: Cac> << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please Cac> contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> Cac> Hi Raul, Cac> A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it. And Cac> the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck somewhere Cac> in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these fine Cac> top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing company Cac> where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us who Cac> are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the first to Cac> say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to cover Cac> whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first offer I'd Cac> appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for Cac> installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent Cac> separately by UPS. Cac> Best Regards, Cac> Cap Cac> Casper Hossfield Cac> 935 Warwick Turnpike Cac> Hewitt, NJ 07421 Cac> __________________________________________________________ Cac> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Cac> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with Cac> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe Cac> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -- Best regards, Angel www.volcanbaru.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Gravitometer plans? From: Mark Andrews mja6042@............. Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:31:18 -0500 Hello All, Would anyone be able to point me to some plans/diagrams on the internet for building a gravitometer? Thanks for the help, Mark PS: I am now successfully running my first home built SG sensor. "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted." --Groucho Marx __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:43:02 EDT In a message dated 4/26/01 4:29:33 AM GMT Daylight Time, angel@............... writes: << Hello Cap, =20 I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him earlier today. >> Hi Angel That is a good idea and I have already written the letter below to Dr. Hutt.= =20 As for the test set, if I am lucky enough to get one, I certainly would be=20 willing to pass it around to others.=20 The big problem is finding someone willing to meet Dr. Hutt's requirement=20 that the seismometers be removed promptly before he is forced to throw them=20 out as garbage. Do any of you PSN guys have any ideas? It would be a shame t= o=20 let these fine Geotech instruments that cost the government thousand of=20 dollars get thrown away as scrap iron. I would be willing to contribute to a= =20 fund to have them picked up and transferred to a warehouse where they can be= =20 saved from destruction until arrangements can be made to crate them and ship= =20 them to other PSN members who might like to have a free Geotech seismometer.= =20 Is anyone else willing to help me set up such a fund? Are others willing to=20 help save them from certain destruction? A seismometer is a seismometer and these fine Geotech instruments like any=20 other seismometer should work just fine sitting on your basement or garage=20 floor. If you want to get fancy and your wife will let you, you could dig a=20 hole in the floor and lower the instrument into or out of the hole with a=20 "Come Along" from Home Depot. The amplifier and filter can be the same sort=20 of stuff we hook to a Lehman and record on SDR or whatever. I would use the=20 vertical output which should record more and better teleseisms than a=20 long-period horizontal Lehman. I would appreciate it very much if some of you experts like Sean Thomas and=20 the others would add your thoughts and comments to the above. Below is a cop= y=20 of Angel's complete message Best regards and thanks, Cap =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- --------------- =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- --------------- Hello Cap, I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him earlier today. "... I know that the amateur community is quite organized and collectively very resourceful and handy. I do not know how you plan to dispose of the test set /controller units, but before you "dump" the KS36000 please offer them along with the controllers to someone in the amateur community through the PSN list. Then then that person could ship the test set "on loan" to members who were willing to bore a hole and bear the=20 expense of operating and maintaining a KS36000. regards =E1ngel Wednesday, April 25, 2001, 8:02:53 PM, you wrote: Cac> In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 Cac> ralvarez@........ writes: Cac> << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please Cac> contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> Cac> Hi Raul, =20 Cac> A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it.= =20 And=20 Cac> the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck=20 somewhere=20 Cac> in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these=20 fine=20 Cac> top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing=20 company=20 Cac> where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us= =20 who=20 Cac> are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the=20 first to=20 Cac> say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to=20 cover=20 Cac> whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first=20 offer I'd=20 Cac> appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for=20 Cac> installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent=20 Cac> separately by UPS. Cac> Best Regards, Cac> Cap Cac> Casper Hossfield Cac> 935 Warwick Turnpike Cac> Hewitt, NJ 07421 Cac> __ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: "Raul J. Alvarez" ralvarez@........ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:05:24 -0600 Hi Cap, No promises, but I am working on a solution. I am in Colorado and am thinking of some way to solve this dilemma. Your suggestions welcomed. I will be going down to see them as soon as available. This will make it easier to see how much packing etc will be needed. The main problem is that, as they are heavy, shippers tend to be rough with that sort of item. Need exceptional packing to survive - read "crating". Raul Alvarez LaEstrellita Observatory CapAAVSO@....... wrote: > In a message dated 4/26/01 4:29:33 AM GMT Daylight Time, angel@............ > writes: > > << Hello Cap, > > I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him > earlier today. >> > > Hi Angel > > That is a good idea and I have already written the letter below to Dr. Hutt. > As for the test set, if I am lucky enough to get one, I certainly would be > willing to pass it around to others. > > The big problem is finding someone willing to meet Dr. Hutt's requirement > that the seismometers be removed promptly before he is forced to throw them > out as garbage. Do any of you PSN guys have any ideas? It would be a shame to > let these fine Geotech instruments that cost the government thousand of > dollars get thrown away as scrap iron. I would be willing to contribute to a > fund to have them picked up and transferred to a warehouse where they can be > saved from destruction until arrangements can be made to crate them and ship > them to other PSN members who might like to have a free Geotech seismometer. > Is anyone else willing to help me set up such a fund? Are others willing to > help save them from certain destruction? > > A seismometer is a seismometer and these fine Geotech instruments like any > other seismometer should work just fine sitting on your basement or garage > floor. If you want to get fancy and your wife will let you, you could dig a > hole in the floor and lower the instrument into or out of the hole with a > "Come Along" from Home Depot. The amplifier and filter can be the same sort > of stuff we hook to a Lehman and record on SDR or whatever. I would use the > vertical output which should record more and better teleseisms than a > long-period horizontal Lehman. > > I would appreciate it very much if some of you experts like Sean Thomas and > the others would add your thoughts and comments to the above. Below is a copy > of Angel's complete message > > Best regards and thanks, > Cap > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------- > > Hello Cap, > > I would write Mr. Hutt directly. This is part of a letter I sent him > earlier today. > > "... I know that the amateur community is quite organized and collectively > very resourceful and handy. I do not know how you plan to dispose of > the test set /controller units, but before you "dump" the KS36000 > please offer them along with the controllers to someone in the amateur > community through the PSN list. Then then that person could ship the > test set "on loan" to members who were willing to bore a hole and bear the > expense of operating and maintaining a KS36000. > > regards > > ángel > > Wednesday, April 25, 2001, 8:02:53 PM, you wrote: > > Cac> In a message dated 04/25/2001 7:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Cac> ralvarez@........ writes: > > Cac> << OK, as promised is the updated message direct from Bob Hutt. Please > Cac> contact him if you have any furhter questions. >> > > Cac> Hi Raul, > > Cac> A free Geotech seismometer is a good deal no matter how you look at it. > And > Cac> the price is right!!!!! Is there a PSN member with a pickup truck > somewhere > Cac> in the Albuquerque area who would be willing to pick up one of these > fine > Cac> top-of-the-line instruments and take it to a professional packing > company > Cac> where it can be crated and put it on a truck to be shipped to one of us > who > Cac> are not discouraged by Dr. Hutt's dire warnings? If so let me be the > first to > Cac> say I'd like to make a deal and will put a money order in the mail to > cover > Cac> whatever it costs to get it on its way. Since I am making the first > offer I'd > Cac> appreciate very much getting one of those "Test Set/Controller for > Cac> installation" with my seismometer. I would think this should be sent > Cac> separately by UPS. > > Cac> Best Regards, > Cac> Cap > > Cac> Casper Hossfield > Cac> 935 Warwick Turnpike > Cac> Hewitt, NJ 07421 > Cac> __ > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:32:41 EDT In a message dated 04/26/2001 2:13:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ralvarez@........ writes: << I will be going down to see them as soon as available. This will make it easier to see how much packing etc will be needed. The main problem is that, as they are heavy, shippers tend to be rough with that sort of item. Need exceptional packing to survive - read "crating". Raul Alvarez LaEstrellita Observatory >> Hi Raul, Thanks for being willing to go down to Albuquerque and look the situation over. I believe the best idea might be to find a long-distance trucking company with a terminal in Albuquerque and ask them how we could get a seismometer on one of their trucks and on its way to any of us who are interested enough in having one to pay for the shipping. They are probably too big and heavy by the time you pack and crate them to go by UPS. The trucking company should be able to tell you how to arrange to have the Seismometer picked up and strapped onto a skid for shipping. My experience with transporting heavy stuff like this is that it is less apt to suffer damage from rough handling on a skid where a lift truck operator loads and unloads it at the trucking terminal than if it is packed in a box or crate for UPS shipping. Thanks for your help. Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: "meredith lamb" mlamb1@.......... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:28:53 -0700 Hi all, Robert my brother Bob thinks the units are of the analog output and LVDT type sensing. The tester seems to read resistance and capacitance which seems to be a "clue" tip off for this type of sensing. I'am not into much electronics but I've seen a generally simple circuit that may have possiblities in this regard. Being as they ARE SURPLUS, and OLDER, there may not be any alternative but to home brew a circuit to utilize such; especially if GeoTech doesn't stock/maintain specific equipment (?) or the price is too high at that company (?). Am not sure at all, but I am guessing these units are ~ 20-30 years old. Meredith Lamb __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: CapAAVSO@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:33:18 EDT In a message dated 4/26/01 9:35:54 PM GMT Daylight Time, mlamb1@.......... writes: << Being as they ARE SURPLUS, and OLDER, there may not be any alternative but to home brew a circuit to utilize such; especially if GeoTech doesn't stock/maintain specific equipment (?) or the price is too high at that company (?). Am not sure at all, but I am guessing these units are ~ 20-30 years old. Meredith Lamb >> Hi Meredith, I would definitely want to homebrew whatever I would connect to the free KS36000 I hope to get, to make it into a usable seismograph. From what Dr. Hutt has said about them it is reasonable to guess they were used to monitor underground nuclear tests and so your guess that they are 20-30 years old is probably correct. Undoubtedly Geotech made a rugged but yet accurate instrument so it could be shipped around the world and installed in deep bore holes in far away places to perform for many years without maintenance. They should make a very good seismo for anyone willing and able to homebrew the same stuff they would have to homebrew to go with a Lehman they might build. Thanks, Meredith, for your helpful advice. I hope others will add further advice and comments too. Thanks, Cap __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:40:22 EDT Hi there, It may be worthwhile remembering that companies who market LVDT's also market separate oscillator/demodulator units. Can no one at GeoTech tell us what sensors etc. were used in these units? There must be someone with a technical handbook somewhere? Regards, Chris Chapman Hi there,

      It may be worthwhile remembering that companies who market LVDT's also
market separate oscillator/demodulator units. Can no one at GeoTech tell us
what sensors etc. were used in these units? There must be someone with a
technical handbook somewhere?

      Regards,

      Chris Chapman Subject: Re: KS36000 seismos and assumptions? From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:53:07 -0700 Regarding the borehole instuments. I can't help speculating on the following: Although they were designed for a borehole, they almost certainly were individual seismometers, stacked one above the other, mounted inside a larger case. It should be possible to separate them and ship as individuals once the borehole case is removed. The idea of temporarily hauling them to a storage locker and disassembling them might be a viable option. At worst it might involve hack-sawing a mounting frame apart (I'd personally use a angle grinder if it came to that.) Once they're apart the seismo masses could be blocked for shipment thereby protecting them. And once they're in that size unit, they could be shipped UPS, cheaply and quickly. The electronics inside may have gotten moist or wet, that would account for the "noisy" performance. One calibration/control box unit is essential to back engineering the required voltages and expected levels to make homebrew electronics. In particular I expect that it had remote control leveling motors to set it up once it was in the borehole. If Raul can do an initial look-see, maybe take some photos to discuss possible separation methods, I'd be willing to fly down and help cart them to a storage locker and take them apart with the aforementioned process. (Raul, if you schedule it later in the week, maybe I can fly down for the look-see also.) I can bring the angle grinder! Two people, a rental truck and a cherry picker/engine lift could handle the instruments. 3 or more could probably just pick them up by hand. I'd estimate a day to move them and maybe 3 days work to break down 40 instruments. After that shipping would be extra. A small storage locker would be about $50 for a month but probably wouldn't allow working on them there. A better option would be to find an aviation homebuilder at a local airport who would let us use some space for a couple of days. If you think this makes sense, I might be able to pursue that option. Anyway, that might keep the shipping and overhead costs low. What do you think? Charles R. Patton __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] From: "Travis Farmer" travis5765@........... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:06:43 -0400 I would like very much to be able to get one of the seismometers. I unfortunatly have no way to pick them up. if one or two could be trucked up my way it would be great. as long as i can afford the shipping. -Travis >From: CapAAVSO@....... >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >To: psn-l@.............. >Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: (ammendment) More on FREE seismometers] >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:32:41 EDT > >In a message dated 04/26/2001 2:13:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >ralvarez@........ writes: > ><< I will be going down to see them as soon as available. This will make >it >easier > to see how much packing etc will be needed. The main problem is that, as >they are > heavy, shippers tend to be rough with that sort of item. Need >exceptional >packing > to survive - read "crating". >Raul Alvarez >LaEstrellita Observatory >> > >Hi Raul, > >Thanks for being willing to go down to Albuquerque and look the situation >over. I believe the best idea might be to find a long-distance trucking >company with a terminal in Albuquerque and ask them how we could get a >seismometer on one of their trucks and on its way to any of us who are >interested enough in having one to pay for the shipping. They are probably >too big and heavy by the t