PSN-L Email List Message

Subject: Re: Border Patrol Use Of Seismic Sensors
From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@...........
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:40:47 -0700

Hello Chris;

Am I speaking just to chris or to the whole PSN world ?
I did a simple reply and not a group reply.

> Hi Geoff,
>    You need some gas present to cool the silicon  wafers and you may also 
> need to ~damp the response. The Brownian motion is  caused by the seismometer 
> being at room temperature. You are 'stuck' with it. To  get rid of it, you would 
> need to cool the seismometer to absolute zero  -273C. 
>    I understand that trying to minaturise  accelerometers down to silicon 
> chip size has several problems, one of which is  that their properties don't 
> quite 'scale' as simple calculations.

If they can make turbine motor/generators tiny enough to fit
into a laptop to power it with alcohol/whatever they also can make a cheap and very small
seismic sensor. The government is about 20 years ahead technically
of the state of the art with their research and development.
Their world can seem like magic to the rest of us.
I will never understand why they can not take a bit of time
to make a decent cheap seismic sensor to measure seismic vertical ground motion ?
Something to both entertain and amuse us.
So we do not dabble in more dangerous things.
Some military secrets have nothing to do with war
but to keep an industrial idea secret so whatever
company can bring whatever to the market first,
The company will not deal with government if
it will not keep whatever secret.
I once saw my so called secret machine listed in that
retired officer magazine for sale to the whole world.
Such a thing had me mezmerized when the government threatened
me with $10,000 fine and 20 years in prison if I told
anyone about it. During time of war like now a death sentance
went with leaking secrets even if such secrets had no
Military Value.

> You are  getting way too complex for what I call amateurs here.
> Amateurs do not make  money off their sport and may be only a layman
> with an interest in whatever  area.
>    Some amateurs have tried and succeeded very well!  Have a look at 
> _ (  and  
> _ 
> ( 

Yes i have seen these before and they are  good ideas
but still the leaf seismometer is quite complex.

I prefer the simpler idea of the ones i see
that are built like garden gates with a spring
instead of a wire for the vertical motion.
And possibly a leaf hinge at the base instead of
I cant remember which one that was on the internet
but the people who made were german and were
charging like $500 USD for each copy.
If I had the Dough I would buy one of those
since i lack the capacity to build one myself.
If you could put the sensor in a glass case in a vacuum/(just use a hand pump)
and use only magnetic damping (not from the sensor)
I think you could get as good a vertical sensor as any
amateure might need.

You must realize that once a person/group starts to
profit monitarily they stop being an amateur
and start being professional.

The russians in the sports areana call their
athletes amateures but in reality since the State
payes for their training and everything
they are in fact professionals and never amateures.

An amateur generally makes his living
in some way other than the field he is dabbling.

Yes a person can start out as an amateur
but should be honest if they ever start making a profit.

I am talking about the whole world here
and not any one human being.

People sometimes take me wrongly and have
damned me in the past for honest observations.
They think I am attacking them personally
when in reality i am just making a general observation.

I think Amateurs need standardization
so they can get similar results
and share everything across the board.

Why does the USGS or some other govmt
not take any interest in standardization ?

Research would be on the side and if something
better and cheaper and more reliable
comes along it could become the new standard.

A standard kit for whatever purpose that would
easily join with a laptop. Possibly standard programs.

I like your input Chris, You get me thinking
when otherwise my mind would be dead.

I will rattle on thoughts in my brains for hours.
Most being senseless.


> Whatever  happened to that scientific idea that simpler is better and more 
> reliable  ?
>    Alive and well, but we have to take the world as we  find it, not as we 
> would wish it to be! Mathematicians may describe simple  harmonic motion quite 
> clearly, but your average pendulum seems to be rather  deaf!  
> Regards,
>    Chris Chapman

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